AH088 - Celebrating Women Pharmacist Day 2025: A Discussion About Growth, Mentorship, Leadership, and More

Transcript

Lightly edited for clarity.‍

[00:22] Justin Venneri: Hello and thank you for listening to this episode of the Astonishing Healthcare Podcast. This is Justin Venneri, your host and Senior Director of Communications at Judi Health. And today in the studio we've got an amazing panel of women pharmacists across our teams for what will be a fun discussion. I think this could become an annual tradition, actually.  

We're celebrating Women Pharmacist Day on the podcast. Obviously, we're a little late this year, but it's still American Pharmacist Month and we're celebrating pharmacy techs. Customer Service Week was earlier this month, so I feel pretty good about it, and I'm super grateful that all of you could take the time.  

First off, we have some returning podcast guests. Allison Gallant, who was on all the way back on episode 18, What's the Right Path? Post-Grad Options for Pharmacists. And Lorece Shaw is with us, who was on episode 17 on prior authorizations. Hope Nakazato as well, who explained why plan sponsors don't need to be afraid of switching PBMs on episode 50. And Cindy Strassner is the new guest. It's her first time on the podcast.  

So, Allison, why don't you start us off with an introduction, and we'll put a little twist on it this time around. Where'd you go to pharmacy school? What was your first job out of school? And what's your current role here at Judi Health?

[01:26] Allison Gallant, PharmD: Thanks, Justin. Thanks for inviting me back on the podcast. I went to pharmacy school at the University of Pittsburgh. My first job out of school was right here at Judi Health.

[01:36] Justin Venneri: Oh, no way!

[01:37] Allison Gallant, PharmD: I joined the team as a pharmacy resident, so I did a year of postgrad training at the company, and my current role is with the client services team, working with commercial clients as a senior strategic account executive.

[01:48] Justin Venneri: You were the first of all the pharmacy residents in the program, right?

[01:52] Allison Gallant, PharmD: Yep. Come a long way. I think we're on our fifth now, so.

[01:55] Justin Venneri: Okay, Cindy, welcome to the show. Same questions to you. Tell us a bit about your background, where you went to pharmacy school, and your role here.

[02:02] Cindy Strassner, RPh: So excited to be here, Justin. Thank you for having me. I went to pharmacy school at the University of Colorado, which is located here in beautiful Denver, Colorado. And my first job was actually Retail at King Supers, which is a Kroger affiliate. And I have been now at Judi Health just shy of five years. My current role is customer success pharmacist and that's working with our product team on our prior authorization tool, which we call PAT.

[02:27] Justin Venneri: Lorece, you're up next. Same questions to you, please.

[02:30] Lorece Shaw, PharmD: Hi everyone. Thanks for having me back, Justin. My name is Lorece Shaw. I am the Senior Director of our Prior Authorization and Clinical Care teams. I lead a very large team of over 100 pharmacists and technicians who assist with everything from PA requests to member provider inquiries. I got my start in pharmacy school in independent pharmacy. I graduated from Texas Southern University and really thought I was going to build a career in compounding. Then I transitioned into the PBM space and I've been fortunate, like Cindy, to have been at Judi Health for five years. I actually just hit my anniversary in October, so super exciting. I was here when Judi® adjudicated its very first claim. So I've seen the organization grow to where it is today and super excited about where we're going next.

[03:16] Justin Venneri: Amazing. Lots of five-year anniversaries. This is a kind of funny October. Hope, last but not least. Thanks for hanging on there.

[03:22] Hope Nakazato, PharmD: Thanks, Justin. And thanks so much for having me back on the podcast. Hi everyone. Hope Nakazato. I actually went to pharmacy school, University of Pittsburgh as well. So fellow Pitt grad -- Allison, didn't know that, but you learn something new every day. So, Hail to Pitt.  

First job out of pharmacy school was Walgreens Pharmacy in Tucson, Arizona. Come a long way since then and now my current role is VP of National Business Development here at Judi Health, and basically just jack of all trades but primarily working with growing the business and teaching new plan sponsors about the pharmacy benefits world.

[03:56] Justin Venneri: So for this episode again, American Pharmacist Month, Women Pharmacist Day. Maybe we'll just start off with Hope; we'll stick with you. What does Woman Pharmacist Day mean to you?

[04:04] Hope Nakazato, PharmD: So for me, Women Pharmacist Day means an important reflection point where we can recognize where we are, how far we've come and how far we still have to go. So I think it's just really about celebrating our colleagues, celebrating the fact that we get to be a part of the patient journey and making the healthcare journey better for all of our patients. And at the end of every claim that we adjudicate is a patient. So I think we all like to help people.

[04:27] Cindy Strassner, RPh: Just to piggyback off of that a little bit, you know all the people that did come before us, but they have helped this profession grow into this diverse field of opportunities we see today. And also recognizing and supporting those currently in the field that continue to push our profession forward into different avenues, recognizing that we have unique skills as women pharmacists that we can bring to a role, whether that's in a standard pharmacy role or something completely nontraditional.

Related Content

• Signs it is time to change your PBM vendor, and how to overcome common hesitations (by Hope Nakazato, PharmD, MBA)
• Pharmacy Benefits 101: Prior Authorizations
• Health Benefits 101: The Importance of Clinical Programs
• AH040 - Celebrating Women Pharmacist Day 2024

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[04:54] Justin Venneri: And how have women leaders helped mentor you in your career? And how do you try to pay it forward today, to build on what Hope was saying? Allison, you want to take that to start?

[05:04] Allison Gallant, PharmD: Yeah, absolutely. So I've been really fortunate to have a lot of strong women leaders early in my career who believed in me and challenged me and really helped me see my potential. It's really been their mentorship that taught me the importance of advocacy, being authentic to yourself, and also lifting others as you grow and climb.  

I mentioned my first year in my career was here at Judi Health as a resident and working with preceptors like Lorece, and working with Cindy at that time as well. So I was really lucky to have that experience to learn from them. They’re pharmacists who are not only passionate about the profession and what they do, but also very passionate about teaching and mentoring.  

And today, I actually feel really lucky to have the opportunity to pay it forward by serving as the client services preceptor for those residents who come through that same residency program that I did years ago. So it's kind of a full circle moment for me and something that's been really rewarding to be a part of.

[06:00] Lorece Shaw, PharmD: Thank you, Alison, for that. I actually credit my great leadership skills to my current leadership. I been fortunate to be under the leadership of Sarah Azadi for the past four years, and she's been another fantastic woman pharmacist who's appeared on this particular podcast. And one of the things that I really love about her is how she really believes in excellence and high standards, but also fiercely advocates for her team. And I think that that gives us the independence to lead and make decisions, which builds our own confidence and leadership skills. And I hope to pass on that type of leadership to people that I mentor as well.  

And I think that mentorship is not just about giving advice. It's also about once you've allowed the person to be independent, holding them accountable, but also giving them confidence to handle and tackle things on their own. And that's something that I've really learned.

[06:51] Justin Venneri: And what would you recommend to other aspiring women leaders? What action can you take to prepare for future success and career growth? Is there anything special you do to prep for interviews or something else you can share? Allison, want to start off there?

[07:05] Allison Gallant, PharmD: This is my little advice that I always tell myself and anyone else who asks me for advice. It's that I'm not going to be the one to tell myself no. I think there's plenty of other people that are going to do that for you in your career. So don't be the person that limits yourself. If there's opportunities that you want to go for, if you don't feel a hundred percent ready, or you don't have the exact experience that you know they're looking for, you can still put yourself in that position and go for it.  

I think that's kind of the mindset I try to have. As women sometimes we like to be fully ready for things before we throw our name into the hat. That's my bit of advice I try to follow.

[07:41] Cindy Strassner, RPh: Yeah, I think just anytime anyone wants to move forward in any type of leadership role, first thing they need to remember is there is a difference between managing people and leading people. The soft skills of communication, learning how to interact with all the different types of individuals are very important in becoming the good leader, as is leading by example.  

Every day in your day to day work life, your strengths are always going to show, but it's the continuing to learn and grow in those areas where you may not be as strong that really is a good example of what a leader is.

[08:17] Hope Nakazato, PharmD: I love those two responses. Allison, I feel like your answer right that really highlights and resonates with Judi Health. We always like to say in sales we never say no, so always say yes to everything. Make it happen. And then you know Cindy as well, I just really feel like being able to continue to grow both your strengths and weaknesses.  

I always recommend basically just leaving a job better than the way that you found it. We all have aspects of our job that we need to do and there are standard job requirements. But I feel like going above and beyond has been what has helped me on my journey to find a part in the process that's broken and try to fix it. You don't always have to have the answer, but to be able to insert yourself and make something better, and celebrating small wins as well, I think those things are always really impactful moving into the future.

[09:01] Justin Venneri: And I would assume as you go through - and I don't want to assume incorrectly -  but to build on that hope as you're thinking about next steps in a career, you know, preparing for those, do you kind of keep track of what you've done to improve where you're leaving and then kind of highlight those in relevant ways for where you'd like to go?

[09:16] Hope Nakazato, PharmD: Yeah, that's interesting that you say that, Justin. I like to tell myself I would do that. So I do keep sort of a list to track actionable items. But I think when building out a resume or thinking about an interview, I think it's really important to go back and sort of do a reflection and just go through. And what did you do above and beyond the typical job description that makes you stand out as an individual? And those are highlights that I feel bring value to the team and really make a difference for future teams.

[09:42] Justin Venneri: Makes sense. And then I love this question just because it makes me think all the time, like, what would I tell my younger self? So I'm going to ask you, Lorece, I'll start with you. What would you tell your younger pharmacist self if you could go back in time about anything -- about where you would go, about how to get there?

[09:56] Lorece Shaw, PharmD: I would just say to be patient and be open to the journey. I think a lot of us, as you've heard, we started off our careers in other areas and we've now moved on to where we are today, which may not be what we saw for ourselves. And I think that that's okay.  

And being okay with things changing, with you growing and moving into different areas, is something that I would want my younger self to be comfortable with. And I would encourage all pharmacists, where you think you are today, you never know where your career may take you. There's lots of new career paths also being created for pharmacists. And I think finding out about those, getting mentorship, and understanding where your career can take you can really go a long way.

[10:34] Allison Gallant, PharmD: Lorece, that really resonates with me. I would probably tell my younger self not to worry so much. And similarly, you don't know where you're going to end up. So it was actually, for me, joining Judi Health and doing the residency program was the result of another opportunity where that door closed. And at the time, that felt very scary and I was very disappointed. And shortly after, you know, finding the opportunity at Judi Health and now four and a half years later, I can look back and be like, oh, thank God that, you know, they said no to me then. So that kind of ties back to the previous question as well, is, you know, when we hear no from others, it's all serving a purpose and it's going to work out.

[11:10] Justin Venneri: I love that worrying. It's like one of those things that someone said it and I wish I could attribute it. Maybe I'll try to find it for the show notes, but 85% of the stuff you worry about doesn't happen. So just focus.

[11:20] Allison Gallant, PharmD: Easier said than done, though.

[11:21] Justin Venneri: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Hope, do you want to chime in on this question? What would you - I'm curious, from being in the sales side and coming from a consulting background - like, what would you tell your younger pharmacist self if you could go back?

[11:32] Hope Nakazato, PharmD: This is something that we probably most of us resonate with. But I would tell myself to have more confidence. It's okay to be wrong, but it's not okay to not have a voice.  

But something specific to Judi Health, which I've really appreciated, is the amount of feedback that we give between teams. And I truly think that this has contributed to my growth more than anything else in my career, is being able to have that collaboration and feedback between all aspects of the company, right? Leadership, you know, CEO, all the way down to individual contributors. But we're all able to give each other feedback and improve upon it. And I think being able to take that feedback now -- and I'm still working on taking feedback -- but being able to take that feedback and ingest it in and realize that constructive feedback doesn't mean that you're not succeeding in your role, but it's just an opportunity to continue on your journey. So that's really helped me.

[12:21] Justin Venneri: That's a great one. Okay. And I'm curious, Cindy, what's something you've accomplished that you're proud of over your career as a pharmacist?

[12:28] Cindy Strassner, RPh: I think as pharmacists we have so much opportunity to make a difference in the lives of our patients and members. Regardless of the role that we're in, whether it's a retail role, a hospital role, or non-traditional industry role. That could be helping a patient understand drug therapies, identifying drug interactions with the provider, or even helping a member find a lower cost alternative for a medication they can't afford.  

So for me, just knowing that we've had that positive effect in someone's life, how big or small, however it may be, that is the most rewarding accomplishment that I feel for my career has, you know -- it's gone across all boards. I've been a pharmacist a really long time in a lot of different fields, and there's always something somewhere that you just have that positive effect on someone's life.

[13:17] Allison Gallant, PharmD: I agree. Working in the client side, we don't get as much of that direct patient, you know, interaction, but those moments where we can assist a member and really make a difference on an individual level really remind me of, you know, why we got into pharmacy in the first place. And that's, you know, to help the patient at, at the end of the claim, like Hope said.  

One thing in my career that I've accomplished that I'm proud of. I have been tasked with the responsibility of training all of our client services new hires on clinical topics. So our pharmacists that join the team as clinical account managers, but also our non-clinical team working in a PBM and in the pharmacy world, there's a little bit of clinical that you need to know as well in those roles too. So that's something that I take a lot of pride in and it's really cool to look at our team. And as much as Judi Health has grow over the years, as I've been training some of our team members for a couple of years now, I look and I'm kind of in a unique position where I gotten to know most of our team members. So that's been really special for me to be able to interact with so many of my colleagues.

[14:18] Justin Venneri: That's awesome. And Lorece, I'm sure given your role, you have plenty of stuff that you can recount that left a mark in a good way in terms of the clinical programs you've oversee, including trying to make prior authorizations easier, is big lift.  

So I'm going to ask you this question. As a woman pharmacist, a leader here, what do you think your biggest obstacles have been and how'd you overcome them?

[14:38] Lorece Shaw, PharmD: Great question, Justin. You know, I really don't find necessarily being a woman very challenging. This is just who I am and I've always been. I think if anything, one of the obstacles can be sometimes perception. How other people may see you as not only a woman, but an African-American woman at the senior leadership level, people might make assumptions about your capabilities and qualifications. For me, the way I overcome this is just by being prepared and showing up with confidence. I think that when you know your stuff and people know that, those actions speak louder than anything, and when you're able to demonstrate that consistency, people take notice and they know that when you're speaking, you have something to say. And I just try to model that for myself and other women in this field to be method of representation for them.

[15:25] Justin Venneri: Well, that is amazing feedback, Lorece. And here we are, last question. I'm not going to go with the most astonishing thing because you're all amazing and you have such great stories. I'm going to go with what are your hopes for the future of pharmacy and women's role in it? Allison, you want to take that first?

[15:38] Allison Gallant, PharmD: I hope to see pharmacy continue to evolve as, you know, a central force in healthcare innovation and Judi Health really leaning into that as well. And I think, you know, to see women leading that charge is something that I hope to see as well. Whether that is in executive roles and positions, shaping policy, driving clinical strategies, and mentorship as well with the next generation. As we've seen, that's been impactful for all of us here.

[16:03] Hope Nakazato, PharmD: I just hope that we can continue to move forward and not backward. You know, I feel like we've come a long way in this industry, but something that really resonated when I was getting my license was that we would all be able to practice at the top of our licenses. And so I hope we can continue to do that. And I'm really grateful for companies such as Judi Health that allow us the ability to fix a broken industry and really continue to make healthcare better for patients around us.

[16:26] Cindy Strassner, RPh: I'd like to continue to see pharmacists expand their role as a point of care at the patient level. States vary on what they allow pharmacists to do, but they are the most seen health care provider by most patients and most easily accessible. So increasing the prescribing ability of pharmacists, their ability to order labs and manage therapies so that patients get that kind of health care at an easier place where they see every day they can go in and see their pharmacist. And I think here at Judi Health, hopefully we can incorporate some of that with being able to allow these pharmacists to bill for that care as we grow and help grow that part in the field.

[17:08] Justin Venneri: Lorece, close us out. You're going to fix prior authorization for the entire country. No pressure.

[17:12] Lorece Shaw, PharmD: That is my hope. I will try, Justin. We will tr. Here at Judi Health, that is something that we prioritize is making our prior authorization process more seamless and more member friendly because we know it is a pain point. And so hopefully through our technologies, we can continue to build on that and build solutions that continue to fix a broken industry.

[17:33] Justin Venneri: Awesome. Well, thank you all so much for joining me for this celebration episode of the Astonishing Healthcare podcast and I look forward to continuing this journey with y' all and hopefully have you back on next year. Have a great rest of your day.

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[17:40] All: Thank you!

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